A[22:04:29] Mazidox Linden: Just a bit. I had fun trying to track down a water taxi on Agni (among other things), flying around the waterways like a madcan. It ended up not helping, but it was a funny story.
A[22:04:50] Lucia Nightfire: why was there a rollback?
A[22:05:21] arton Rotaru: maybe the water taxi sank?
A[22:05:25] Mazidox Linden: The best way I can think of to explain it is that we accidentally made a self-griefing simulator.
A[22:05:38] Rex Cronon: lol
A[22:05:41] Lucia Nightfire: in what way?
A[22:05:45] Jenna Felton: Mazi you should test all the fun things in SL :)
A[22:05:55] Caleb Linden: grumble grumble
A[22:06:01] Lucia Nightfire: no meat for you
A[22:06:01] Rex Cronon: so, whic linden got the ban hammer:)
A[22:06:07] Rex Cronon: which*
A[22:06:13] Lucia Nightfire: that ref is over most people's heads here
A[22:06:34] Mazidox Linden: Regions just popped offline at (basically) random. This is... Somewhat undesirable.
A[22:06:37] Mazidox Linden: So, rollback.
A[22:06:41] Duckie Dickins: maybe that linden is now in charge of fetching starbucks this week. :P
A[22:06:47] Lucia Nightfire: so same thing as last week
A[22:07:21] Mazidox Linden: /me consults his notebook
A[22:07:31] Lucia Nightfire: *Linen Handbook
A[22:07:35] Lucia Nightfire: *Linden
A[22:07:40] Caleb Linden: was it DJs again?
A[22:07:51] Rex Cronon: so sims got a random self-destruct timer?
A[22:08:08] Whirly Fizzle: Whats wrong on Agni atm? The maintenance is over but there's lots of screams about attachments refusing to attach. Seems to be some kind of asset failure but nothing on grid status yet
A[22:08:15] Lucia Nightfire: I assume they're not falling like flies on aditi
A[22:08:35] Lucia Nightfire: *crashing
A[22:09:24] Caleb Linden: what is the attachment issue?
A[22:09:38] Mazidox Linden: No, last week was different. Different maintenance release, different problem, same result.
A[22:09:45] Rex Cronon: i think attachments refusing to attach is due o sim or viewer having corrupted attachments attached?
A[22:10:16] Whirly Fizzle: I dunno, hoping you could tell me haha. Lots of screaming about attachments can't be taken off or added, rez failures etc. the usual stuff before "uncheduled maintenance" is announced
A[22:10:24] Rex Cronon: they were either removed wrong or attached wrong
A[22:10:30] Whirly Fizzle: There's screams in FSE & the forums
A[22:17:07] Lucia Nightfire: I already am not expecting shineys
A[22:17:22] Lucia Nightfire: in fact, I want to ask to make sure creation time is NOT released yet
A[22:17:27] Mazidox Linden: We may have a snack-sized release of it later today, just to start getting some confidence we're on the right track with avoiding the crash we encountered.
A[22:17:28] Lucia Nightfire: I went over it with Simon
A[22:17:35] Lucia Nightfire: and I assume you liasoned with him
A[22:17:48] Lucia Nightfire: since https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-134057 was accepted
A[22:17:59] Lucia Nightfire: btw idk why you set that to triagers, heh
A[22:18:20] Jenna Felton: why it should not be released yet Lucy?
A[22:18:24] Caleb Linden: because it's aditi
A[22:18:32] Rex Cronon: lucy. could u please say what that jira is about?
A[22:18:44] Lucia Nightfire: see this beach ball here
A[22:18:51] Lucia Nightfire: see the creation time?
A[22:19:01] Lucia Nightfire: that is the format current creation times are using
A[22:19:10] Lucia Nightfire: which was news to me as I thought it was a unix time
A[22:19:15] Jenna Felton: 2002
A[22:19:25] Lucia Nightfire: so I'm trying to get Simon to look into giving use higher precision subsecond time
A[22:19:34] Jenna Felton: ah
A[22:19:40] Whirly Fizzle: What regions wll be on the Snack test?
A[22:19:56] Mazidox Linden: I don't have the list in front of me Whirly, sorry.
A[22:19:56] Jenna Felton: i thought you encountered any security issue in it what i not see :)
A[22:20:11] Lucia Nightfire: as you won't be able to achieve duplicates like you currently can with 2 digits
A[22:20:35] arton Rotaru: why no dupes with 6 digits
A[22:21:07] Lucia Nightfire: because the server won't be able to create prims or mesh faster then once every 0.000001 seconds
A[22:21:24] Lucia Nightfire: it can create them faster than 0.01 seconds though
A[22:21:31] Jenna Felton: i stil think the creation key is the most exact way to avoid dublicates :)
A[22:21:42] Rex Cronon: maybe if they get faster server.....
A[22:21:46] Lucia Nightfire: if you check any bulk uploaded mesh linkset you will see duplicate creation times
A[22:21:46] Jenna Felton: but creation time would be work around
A[22:21:48] arton Rotaru: what if 10 000 people rez a prim on 10 000 different regions
A[22:21:59] arton Rotaru: at the same time
A[22:22:10] Lucia Nightfire: @Jenna, I'm going this route for now as it is an existing data point
A[22:22:16] Rex Cronon: do we have 10k sims?
A[22:22:27] Lucia Nightfire: Simon said creation key would be a lot farther down teh road with time avilabel to work on it
A[22:22:33] arton Rotaru: their should be around 24k regins
A[22:22:41] Jenna Felton: you need the combination of creator key and creation time, so you can not create prims at different regions.
A[22:22:41] Rex Cronon: oh. ok
A[22:23:00] Lucia Nightfire: yes, it will be creator key and creation time for validation means
A[22:23:27] Rex Cronon: u have a problem u can still have duplicates
A[22:23:33] Lucia Nightfire: how?
A[22:23:51] Lucia Nightfire: mathcing both creator key and creation time is a unique id means
A[22:23:52] Rex Cronon: i rezz a collapsed object with 100prims
A[22:24:00] Lucia Nightfire: esp once we get 6 digit decimal precision
A[22:24:14] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, you cannot create in coalseced form
A[22:24:26] Lucia Nightfire: creation time != rez time
A[22:24:30] Lucia Nightfire: creation time cannot be changed
A[22:24:33] arton Rotaru: lol hi Rey
A[22:24:35] Rex Cronon: each time to rez something a new object is created
A[22:24:47] Lucia Nightfire: copying != creating
A[22:24:58] Lucia Nightfire: idt you understand how this works, heh
A[22:25:26] Mazidox Linden: So, no DRTSIM-355 (the one that includes the new GetObjectDetails parameter), DRTSIM-354, or DRTSIM-340 next week. We might have DRTSIM-352 on RC, maybe, next week. But that should be just like Second Life Server. It's strictly a build number change from 3xxxxx to 5xxxxx.
A[22:26:18] Lucia Nightfire: just keep the commit for OBJECT_CREATION_TIME off the build process until Simon has a chance to look at updating the time being pulled with raw material creation adn mesh uploading
A[22:27:40] Rex Cronon: i have a question. lets say i create 10 prims. i take them to inventory, i rez them, and i link them. what is the creation time or the new object?
A[22:27:48] Lucia Nightfire: OBJECT_SIT_COUNT & OBJECT_SELECT_COUNT can be shipped, although it will break the llGOD() sequence number
A[22:27:56] Rex Cronon: of the new *
A[22:28:00] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, it is by targeted key
A[22:28:07] Jenna Felton: it will be the creation time of the root prim, Rex
A[22:28:08] Rex Cronon: and by that u mean
A[22:28:18] Lucia Nightfire: if you target a child link, you get the creation time for that link
A[22:28:20] Rex Cronon: than is a face nr
A[22:28:22] Jenna Felton: and every prim should have diferent creation times
A[22:28:33] Lucia Nightfire: if you target the root it will be for the root
A[22:28:33] Rex Cronon: fake*
A[22:28:51] Mazidox Linden: We'll ship the changeset together, almost certainly.
A[22:28:57] Rex Cronon: i won't know when the linked set was created
A[22:28:59] Lucia Nightfire: SIT_COUNT and SELECT_COUNT though are NOT key targeted
A[22:29:06] Lucia Nightfire: they are linkset total
A[22:29:11] Lucia Nightfire: no matter what link you targety
A[22:29:22] Lucia Nightfire: which is the way it should be, heh
A[22:29:37] Jenna Felton: thank you Mazidox :)
A[22:29:39] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, linksets are not created
A[22:29:42] Lucia Nightfire: only prims
A[22:29:51] Lucia Nightfire: mesh is created indiv and linked
A[22:30:01] Rex Cronon: each time i link something, it become a new object
A[22:30:02] Lucia Nightfire: again, idt you understand how creation time works
A[22:30:10] Lucia Nightfire: and creation time won't change
A[22:30:28] Rex Cronon: well i need to know when the linked object was created
A[22:30:29] Lucia Nightfire: there are only two times where creation time is established, on raw material creation and mesh upload
A[22:31:05] Whirly Fizzle: oxp import ;)
A[22:31:08] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, target the root prim, but it will give you the creation time for that link
A[22:31:23] Lucia Nightfire: the creation time for the linkset is subjective no matter what
A[22:31:49] Lucia Nightfire: [15:28:51] Mazidox Linden: We'll ship the changeset together, almost certainly. <--what do you mean Mazi?
A[22:31:52] Jenna Felton: Rex, create a few boxes, one by one, link them together, and pich the build. then rez it a few times and inspect the creation times. you should see for every copy the similar time for accordant prims, but different for every prim because you created these prims at different time point
A[22:31:59] Rex Cronon: when u make a car in rea life i doesn't tell u when the root screw was made. it tells u when the whole core was assembled
A[22:32:09] Caleb Linden: Record Scratch: just quick location roll call, apparently someone in ops changed the inventory host that we are all on on aditi such that Develop -> Avatar -> Character Test switching between Female and Male Characters is running without problems
A[22:32:13] Jenna Felton: pich -> pick up
A[22:32:21] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, this isn't link time, heh
A[22:32:26] Lucia Nightfire: it is creation time
A[22:32:39] Rex Cronon: when u link u create a new object
A[22:32:40] Mazidox Linden: Oh that's right Caleb, I forgot we needed to advertise that.
A[22:33:14] Caleb Linden: OPS is dying to know if their fix works for folks from different corners of the world
A[22:33:29] Mazidox Linden: Yeah, it's gonna depend to a degree as to where you're physically located.
A[22:33:30] Caleb Linden: Testing in SF doesn't really count
A[22:33:37] arton Rotaru: That's what I got for rezzing, copying, and linking:
A[22:33:40] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, then file a feature request for it
A[22:34:12] Rex Cronon: well, u can't say the rez time and creator is an unique key
A[22:34:24] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, idc
A[22:34:29] Lucia Nightfire: DEAL WITH IT
A[22:34:29] Whirly Fizzle: Character test works for me in the UK
A[22:34:47] Rex Cronon: u will confuse people
A[22:34:52] Lucia Nightfire: no it won't
A[22:34:59] Lucia Nightfire: it is an existing parameter already
A[22:35:04] Jenna Felton: for some reason all the 4 boxes have same creation time
A[22:35:14] Lucia Nightfire: it exists in the inspect sheet
A[22:35:17] Lucia Nightfire: and has for years
A[22:35:25] Mazidox Linden: I don't think this is the appropriate venue for this discussion at this point.
A[22:35:50] Lucia Nightfire: [15:28:51] Mazidox Linden: We'll ship the changeset together, almost certainly. <--what did you meanby this, Mazi?
A[22:35:57] Rex Cronon: i wonder when it is mazidox. after u release it?
A[22:36:44] Jenna Felton: Character test and gender change Male to Female worked correct
A[22:36:50] Duckie Dickins: ugh....I need to dash off early due to first life. :D See ya. Thanks for the meeting
A[22:36:57] Mazidox Linden: Thanks Duckie.
A[22:37:00] Rex Cronon: tc duckie
A[22:37:02] Caleb Linden: what's your continent jenna?
A[22:37:07] Jenna Felton: europa
A[22:37:16] Jenna Felton: germany :)
A[22:37:17] Caleb Linden: cool that's good
A[22:37:24] Caleb Linden: affenstark
A[22:37:25] Mazidox Linden: Lucia, I mean that we aren't going to put in a couple of new parameters, wait a bit, and put more in.
A[22:37:29] arton Rotaru: lol
A[22:37:56] Lucia Nightfire: I asked Simon to delay releasing OBJECT_CRETION_TIME until he can look into changing the time beign pulled
A[22:38:07] Caleb Linden: there will be time
A[22:38:07] Lucia Nightfire: idk if he talked to you as it was late
A[22:38:25] Caleb Linden: it won't get out next week
A[22:38:32] Lucia Nightfire: idek who is compiling server versions either
A[22:38:40] Mazidox Linden: And what I'm saying is that all related changes to that will come out at the same time.
A[22:39:25] Lucia Nightfire: I'm trying to prevent it from being released then people becoming dependant on behavior on agni, which is the same fate of llGetAttachedList()
A[22:39:54] Mazidox Linden: And Rex, as to appropriateness of venue, I'd like to prevent what appears to be a bubbling argument here, happening in real time. It would be more productive to talk on the Server Technology forums, or in a Jira (though I think because we accepted the request it's closed for commenting...).
A[22:39:55] Lucia Nightfire: which now has to have a whole new function to return a full list
A[22:39:57] arton Rotaru: fate of the furious
A[22:40:22] Lucia Nightfire: sorry if it looked like I was steaming but I wasn't
A[22:40:28] Rex Cronon: ok mazidox
A[22:40:40] Lucia Nightfire: Rex and I always get into these type of picky conversations, heh
A[22:41:03] Mazidox Linden: To be clear, it is not that I don't want the conversation happening now, but that I am concerned that having it now and here isn't the right place, as opposed to the right time to have it.
A[22:41:17] Jenna Felton: changing into an outfit takes a little longer than on agni :)
A[22:41:23] Rex Cronon: neither i nor lucy have started bashing our head yet. lol
A[22:41:30] Mazidox Linden: And if there's significant discussion you think is relevant to a feature under test, please by all means link it here.
A[22:41:41] Mazidox Linden: That's good to know too Jenna.
A[22:41:42] Caleb Linden: thanks jenna i will check it out
A[22:41:55] Rex Cronon: heads*
A[22:41:58] Lucia Nightfire: I do have a request of everyone here
A[22:42:03] Lucia Nightfire: I want to do a simple test
A[22:42:11] Lucia Nightfire: it requires more than 8 people, heh
A[22:42:15] arton Rotaru: lol
A[22:42:26] arton Rotaru: as long as I can stay as I am
A[22:42:29] Mazidox Linden: Oh, I'm more than 8 people!
A[22:42:32] Rex Cronon: u want to bash our heads together:)
A[22:42:39] arton Rotaru: lol
A[22:42:44] Lucia Nightfire: see the box that says Agents Selecting/Sitting on ME:"? can everyone open their edit menu and try selecting it?
A[22:42:51] Lucia Nightfire: I want to see if it goes over 8 people
A[22:43:04] arton Rotaru: That's what mazidox would like to do with you and Lucia^
A[22:43:08] Whirly Fizzle: selected
A[22:43:11] Rex Cronon: what box?
A[22:43:15] Whirly Fizzle: It thinks I sat on it..
A[22:43:16] Lucia Nightfire: next to the beach ball
A[22:43:29] Lucia Nightfire: Whirls, no it doesn
A[22:43:36] Rex Cronon: it shows "sit here"
A[22:43:39] Whirly Fizzle: Sorry, read it wrong.
A[22:43:50] Lucia Nightfire: 3 people atm
A[22:43:53] Lucia Nightfire: 4
A[22:44:05] arton Rotaru: why would it stop at 8?
A[22:44:09] Lucia Nightfire: I don't want to have to log in 9 instances to test this, heh
A[22:44:11] Jenna Felton: /me selecting it
A[22:44:20] Lucia Nightfire: 6
A[22:44:33] Lucia Nightfire: a few are afk I guess, heh
A[22:44:36] Lucia Nightfire: 7
A[22:44:42] Rex Cronon: only 7 here
A[22:44:48] arton Rotaru: 2 more
A[22:44:59] Lucia Nightfire: there are 9
A[22:45:01] arton Rotaru: I can login another av
A[22:45:10] Rex Cronon: 2 r lindends
A[22:45:14] Rex Cronon: lindens*
A[22:45:23] Lucia Nightfire: and that makes them not count?
A[22:45:30] Lucia Nightfire: I'm reading teh radar by distance