A[19:01:48] Adamburp Adamczyk: happy (belated) birthday Simon
A[19:01:54] Nalates Urriah: You too Rex
A[19:02:01] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
A[19:02:06] Rider Linden: Hi all
A[19:02:17] Rex Cronon: hi willow
A[19:02:26] Rex Cronon: hi rider
A[19:02:31] Rex Cronon: hi kelly
A[19:02:41] Rex Cronon: hi adamburp
A[19:02:56] Simon Linden: Let's see ... for server news, we unfortunately held back this morning's update with the Animesh roll. Late last week we found some code that is probably causing problems with the physics shapes of mesh bodies ... not animesh, but other normal mesh stuff
A[19:03:04] Rex Cronon: hello simon
A[19:03:24] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what the update plans will be on that in the next week or two
A[19:04:38] Simon Linden: Also, next week there won't be a user group meeting
A[19:05:19] Simon Linden: and today I must leave at 12:30, but the other Lindens will be sticking around to solve all the problems
A[19:05:21] Jenna Felton: when you screw people's mesh bodies you need good ear protectors :)
A[19:05:34] Willow Wilder: LOL
A[19:05:53] Simon Linden: at least mesh bodies don't have physics shapes :)
A[19:06:24] Theresa Tennyson: I was about to ask about that.
A[19:06:30] Duckie Dickins: Is it just me or does anyone else need to hit Refresh Attachments every other time you teleport somewhere....it's like every second teleport someone tells me I'm missing something.
A[19:06:51] Lou Netizen: /me has not encountered that
A[19:06:58] Adamburp Adamczyk: /me is not mesh
A[19:07:04] Jenna Felton: than I misunderstood your previous info, Simon about problems with the "physic shapes of mesh bodies"
A[19:07:05] Simon Linden: /me doesn't have that in his viewer
A[19:07:18] animats Resident: I have to use Force Appearance Rebake after many teleports to get my boots back.
A[19:07:28] Jenna Felton: Duckie, I rarelly need it, and not every teleport
A[19:07:31] Adamburp Adamczyk: in fact if memory is right this is the avi i;ve used since about a month after my atrrival
A[19:08:05] Simon Linden: Right, just to be clear, the "bodies" I'm talking about here are the shapes the physics engine uses for an object in world, not avatar bodies
A[19:08:07] Willow Wilder: Duckie, are you stacking attachments on the same point? That's one thing that can help with "ghosting"
A[19:08:27] Jenna Felton: ah, thank you Simon :)
A[19:08:36] Duckie Dickins: Yeah that's probably one of the issues..it's like every mesh clothing creator keeps things stacked on the right hand.
A[19:08:39] Simon Linden: when building with mesh, there are a few ways to set that shape, and the animesh code changes affected that code
A[19:10:37] Lou Netizen: /me drops a pin
A[19:10:48] Simon Linden: Must be chat lag :)
A[19:10:57] animats Resident: This latest update has some new logging features, according to the release notes. Does that include region crossing failure logging, as discussed two months ago here?
A[19:17:16] Simon Linden: My experience makes me want to say "STOP" and not even attempt the second until the first is really done
A[19:18:35] animats Resident: That improves the success rate but does not eliminate all failures.
A[19:19:12] Jeannine78 Resident: Hello ^^
A[19:19:22] Simon Linden: Hi Jeany
A[19:19:40] Rex Cronon: hello jeany
A[19:19:56] animats Resident: Several other builders, notably Myuki Mills, also do that.
A[19:20:12] Simon Linden: Right Joe ... at this point I want to improve the code and communications so after a crossing, both regions and the viewer can agree that everyone is on the 2nd region with all attachments and vehicles
A[19:20:33] Simon Linden: and, when something goes wrong, try to recover
A[19:20:55] animats Resident: Exactly. It's clear that it's possible to get into a stable state from which there is no recovery.
A[19:21:21] animats Resident: Why is the viewer in the loop, anyway?
A[19:21:29] Rex Cronon: u go into a "stable" crash:)
A[19:21:42] Simon Linden: it gets new full updates on your attachments from the new region
A[19:22:05] Duckie Dickins: well right now I recover manually by using firestorm's "Refresh Attachments" option in the advanced menu so that I don't have to relog in order for the sim to realize that I'm wearing the attachments the viewer says I am.
A[19:22:21] Simon Linden: I wonder what that command does
A[19:22:26] animats Resident: But the sim waits for the viewer for some key transaction. Otherwise I couldn't force the error by adding network delay.
A[19:22:40] Oz Linden: We don't want the user to have to do things like that, though
A[19:22:59] Rex Cronon: if u tp out and back aren't your attachments also refreshed?
A[19:23:07] animats Resident: On attachments, there really should be one "repair avatar" function that Just Works.
A[19:23:23] Simon Linden: At both ends, viewer and region, it should be able to realize it's been a few seconds and things are missing or not, and then re-try
A[19:23:39] Willow Wilder: I think this is it https://hg.phoenixviewer.com/phoenix-firestorm-lgpl/rev/251787a25d63
A[19:23:51] Willow Wilder: There were a couple of tweaks too I believe
A[19:24:14] Simon Linden: I'm not looking at FS code, sorry - it's a legal thing
A[19:24:42] Simon Linden: It would be great to get a code contribution, but we can't go poking around in other code
A[19:24:51] Duckie Dickins: even open source?
A[19:25:04] Willow Wilder: Oh I know that. I thought you wanted to know what it does.
A[19:25:07] Simon Linden: yes
A[19:25:12] Beq Janus: I can paraphrase it
A[19:25:20] Simon Linden: I do, but I have to guess :)
A[19:25:26] Rex Cronon: technically fs code is an extension of ll's code...
A[19:25:35] Simon Linden: I'll predict it asks for full updates on all the attachment local IDs
A[19:26:47] Beq Janus: effectively, we run through the list of what we think is attached
A[19:26:49] Simon Linden: I know the code thing is a pain, but we just have to be careful to follow the legal guidelines. "Open Source" doesn't mean "free for the taking"
A[19:27:01] Beq Janus: and detach anything we get a confused look back from the server for
A[19:27:10] Willow Wilder: I wasn't offering it, Simon.
A[19:27:48] Simon Linden: I understand, and thanks for helping ... I was juggling a few comments about it there
A[19:28:10] animats Resident: I looked into writing a dumper to log the details of ImprovedTerseObjectUpdate messages. The code that parses those in the viewer is amusing. Way more complex than it needs to be.
A[19:29:30] Oz Linden: contributions that make the code better are always welcome
A[19:29:40] Beq Janus: Kitty wrote the refresh attachments so you should be able to get a contrib from Kitty
O[19:30:10] Meeter/77e48a07-06f1-4ae4-9d33-6eab4d445e2d: Timecheck : User Group is half over
A[19:30:12] Duckie Dickins: She's not on otherwise I would have asked her to pop in.
A[19:30:20] Simon Linden: I must leave for an appointment - thanks eveyrone for coming
A[19:30:26] Rex Cronon: tc simon
A[19:30:27] Willow Wilder: Kitty's fix was to make life easier while waiting for a server side fix.
A[19:30:30] Duckie Dickins: Have a great day Simon!
A[19:30:33] animats Resident: There's a bug where, every once in a while, an avatar and vehicle are yanked a full region away from where they should be, then rubber-band back. Somehow, local coords are being interpreted relative to the wrong region. Not sure if it's viewer side or server side, hence the need for a dumper.
A[19:30:35] Willow Wilder: thanks Simon.
A[19:30:42] Rider Linden: Thanks Simon
A[19:31:05] Simon Linden: See you all in two weeks
A[19:31:14] Rex Cronon: have fun:)
A[19:31:22] Duckie Dickins: is that the bug someone mentioned about crossing into the next sim and they ended up skipping that sim entirely and ended up in the sim beyond it?
A[19:32:12] animats Resident: Oz, I sometimes contribute to Firestorm, but LL's contribution agreement overreaches, so, as a creator of intellectual property, it would be legally inadvisable for me to sign it.
A[19:32:21] Rider Linden: There is an old story about someone who used a technique like that to escape the old teen grid.
A[19:32:26] Rex Cronon: i think that happens either at corners or when u go super fast?
A[19:32:27] Mazidox Linden: "It's just a hop, a skip, and... oof!"
A[19:32:52] Oz Linden: sorry to hear that, Joe
A[19:33:27] Oz Linden: If you'd like to share your thoughts on where it's a problem, please drop me an email
A[19:33:34] animats Resident: OK.
A[19:34:12] Rex Cronon: afk
A[19:34:51] Jenna Felton: I have a question, I sometimes come across complex attachment built off a large number of prims while only some of them are visible, others not until they are needed. For example a tool belt or it can be inworld animal having multiple accessories like hat or belt or alike. When the prims are set to invisible they stil cause rendering costs and scripts inside them take sim resources. What when there would be a way to have these prims linked to the linkset but tagged as "unload". And only at the moment they become tagged as "load" the sim updates the linkset as if these prims were rezzed and added?
A[19:34:53] Duckie Dickins: Mazi. I hope at SL16B that https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-41503 is resolved because I went this year to bear island and picked up every single one I was missing from my collection.....Still need the Mazidox rookie card. :P
O[07:26:41] Kiosk - LL Mainland Continents/e8e6959e-6458-454b-9f44-71b0a30102f7: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
A[21:58:54] Rex Cronon: greetings folks
A[21:59:11] Whirly Fizzle: Hiya :)
A[21:59:46] Rex Cronon: hi whirly
A[21:59:48] Caleb Linden: hiya
A[21:59:49] Jenna Felton: hello all :)
A[22:00:04] Rex Cronon: i can't belive it. i think i was first today:)
A[22:00:09] Rex Cronon: hi caleb
A[22:00:12] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
A[22:00:13] Minuet Voir: Hi everyone!
A[22:00:21] Nalates Urriah: Hi all
A[22:00:24] Duckie Dickins: hello!
A[22:00:27] Rex Cronon: hi minuet
A[22:00:30] arton Rotaru: Gunaaaabend
A[22:00:31] Rex Cronon: hi nal
A[22:00:41] Rex Cronon: hi duckie
A[22:00:57] Rex Cronon: hi arton
O[22:01:12] RegionCross_Attachment_Touchme/b4f26234-6778-43b3-b9e9-90e9773e84f1: The region has changed.
O[22:01:14] RegionCross_Attachment_Touchme/b4f26234-6778-43b3-b9e9-90e9773e84f1: All attachments accounted for: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,13,14,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,39,43,50,53,54,55
A[22:01:26] Duckie Dickins: now youre making me hungry with your oversized ice cream. lol
A[22:01:35] Minuet Voir: Oh fancy schmancy Bugsly
A[22:01:43] Whirly Fizzle: Hmmm I have lots of missing objects on the LL viewer here o.O
A[22:02:01] Jenna Felton: hello Bugsly, you have 55 attachments?
A[22:02:17] Bugsly Linden: hi all! :) hehe just a few!
A[22:02:19] Caleb Linden: interesting, i have the perfect segueway for this
A[22:02:24] Jenna Felton: ah, sorry, numbers are not continuous
A[22:02:38] Rex Cronon: u always count your attachments before leaving home bugsly:)
A[22:02:49] Caleb Linden: because i just updated the inventory service on aditi, to a more updated version
A[22:02:58] Bugsly Linden: I try to count them :D
A[22:02:58] Rex Cronon: hi bugsly
A[22:03:05] Whirly Fizzle: Does that include rezzed inventory?
A[22:03:17] Mazidox Linden: 1, 2... Skip a few 55 100?
A[22:03:18] Caleb Linden: anything related to inventory should work as before, if not give me a holler
A[22:03:54] Minuet Voir: which before?
A[22:04:20] Caleb Linden: three days ago
A[22:04:25] Caleb Linden: and before
A[22:04:26] Duckie Dickins: I got like 10k more objects here than on agni
A[22:04:38] Minuet Voir: okay
A[22:04:42] Caleb Linden: duckie that may be the account sync
A[22:04:43] Minuet Voir: I haven't been here since last week
A[22:04:45] Caleb Linden: merge
A[22:04:52] Jenna Felton: that are 10k whih you created here Duckie?
A[22:04:55] Minuet Voir: I don't think
A[22:04:59] Jenna Felton: which
A[22:05:29] Duckie Dickins: some of them but not that many. Heh
A[22:06:08] Jenna Felton: for some reason i have some calling cards, inclusive mine multiple time in my inventory, even on agni
A[22:06:43] Jenna Felton: can be due viewer switch
A[22:06:49] Jenna Felton: but not sure
A[22:08:06] Minuet Voir: If you've had them for a while, there was a bug that duped calling cards when you cleared cache, that's since been fixed
A[22:08:18] Jenna Felton: ah
A[22:08:25] Jenna Felton: i cleaned cache often
A[22:08:30] Jenna Felton: thank you :)
A[22:08:36] Minuet Voir: tsk tsk
A[22:08:53] Jenna Felton: i look at some of them now, they are from 2010 and earlier
A[22:08:56] Minuet Voir: Some people ended up with thousands and thousands lol
A[22:09:02] Margithe Resident: oh i actually have double calling cards on this account, the only thing that has changed was one toS acceptance
A[22:09:27] Caleb Linden: other than the inventory on aditi, we only got DRTSIM-383 out on BlueSteel
A[22:10:08] Mazidox Linden: I've spent the week investigating a variety of backend issues.
A[22:10:38] Minuet Voir: Magnum?
A[22:10:58] Minuet Voir: juicy internal fixes
A[22:11:11] Caleb Linden: was it magnum?
A[22:11:13] Caleb Linden: oh
A[22:11:36] Minuet Voir: My Magnum region rolled I think
A[22:12:15] Minuet Voir: I don't know how to translate DRTSIM
A[22:12:28] Caleb Linden: that is internal info
A[22:12:59] Duckie Dickins: What have you been working on Bugsly?
A[22:13:01] Minuet Voir: like MAINTs
A[22:13:15] Mazidox Linden: No internal fixes, just investigations into a variety of issues so that maybe there will be fixes one day.
A[22:13:29] Minuet Voir: nice
A[22:13:30] Mazidox Linden: (AKA I hunt the bugs real good)
A[22:13:44] Bugsly Linden: I've been investigating some issues and of course some region crossing testing
A[22:14:04] Duckie Dickins: oh yes I heard about the region crossing stuff on tuesday's meeting.
A[22:14:23] Minuet Voir: with different vehicles, or...?
A[22:14:47] Duckie Dickins: I would hope with different vehicles.
A[22:15:13] Minuet Voir: I left out "types" as I was curious
A[22:15:40] Mazidox Linden: A lot of what we do is working on repeatability so we'll do the same thing multiple times to make sure it's stable.
A[22:15:40] Caleb Linden: A lot of what we do is working on repeatability so we’ll do the same thing multiple times to make sure it’s stable.
A[22:15:40] Bugsly Linden: A lot of what we do is working on repeatability so we’ll do the same thing multiple times to make sure it’s stable.
A[22:15:48] Bugsly Linden: lol
A[22:15:55] Minuet Voir: whoah
A[22:15:56] Margithe Resident: lol
A[22:16:13] Duckie Dickins: now they're just trolling us.
A[22:16:16] Minuet Voir: it's the borg
A[22:16:19] Rex Cronon: copy=paste?
A[22:16:20] Margithe Resident: goto 10
A[22:16:56] Bugsly Linden: ^^ohh basic was my first language :)
A[22:17:24] Caleb Linden: that's a wrap
A[22:17:29] Rex Cronon: there is this movie about a gy with multiple personalities...
A[22:17:32] Minuet Voir: mine was babytalk
A[22:17:46] Caleb Linden: with jim carrey?
A[22:17:49] Rex Cronon: a guy*
A[22:17:52] Margithe Resident: My was Polish, the Fortran of languages.
A[22:18:04] Mazidox Linden: Thanks for coming out to today's SBUG meeting everyone, let's get started.
A[22:18:25] Rex Cronon: no.glass or something like that
A[22:18:36] Rex Cronon: oh is split i think
A[22:19:19] Rex Cronon: u gays ain't like that. right?
A[22:19:19] Rex Cronon: :)
A[22:19:26] Caleb Linden: floor is open for questions
A[22:19:41] Rex Cronon: u guys*
A[22:19:46] Duckie Dickins: lol
A[22:19:53] Duckie Dickins: Rex!
A[22:20:00] Duckie Dickins: Into the naughty corner now
A[22:20:02] arton Rotaru: are you guys preparing for the Linden Summer of Love
A[22:20:04] Minuet Voir: /me falls through the floor
A[22:20:10] Rex Cronon: ok. i should stop typing i make too many typos:(
A[22:21:40] Mazidox Linden: It's always the Linden Summer of Love
A[22:21:41] Minuet Voir: Caleb, I was watching FSE a bit this week, about the friends list not populating. It was coming up a lot. I wish there was an easy way to keep track of it, but I haven't come up with anything.
A[22:21:43] Margithe Resident: I'm severely confused about the possibility of animation editing in viewer. LL teaming up with Independents? What next, Lucia starts coming back to these meeting, we'll get vertex editing on mesh, and texture painting tools O.o
A[22:22:31] Whirly Fizzle: Maybe even Mirrors!!!1!!!!
A[22:22:37] Mazidox Linden: I must confess to knowing nothing about any of that Margithe.
A[22:22:41] Margithe Resident: HOLY Mo'
A[22:22:54] Margithe Resident: :O
A[22:23:06] Minuet Voir: Bring back last names!
A[22:23:12] Margithe Resident: Ok, sorry for the sidetrack, but it took me by surprise