A[20:01:49] Jenna Felton: Meeter forgot to switch to saving time :)
A[20:01:49] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
A[20:01:56] Jenna Felton: hello Simon and Rider
A[20:02:05] Jenna Felton: and Rex :)
A[20:02:13] Rider Linden: Hello there
A[20:02:16] Simon Linden: Hello everyone
A[20:02:21] animats Resident: So did the world. Notice that it's daylight here.
A[20:02:33] Rex Cronon: hi jenna:)
A[20:02:36] Rex Cronon: hi rider
A[20:02:40] Rex Cronon: hi simon
A[20:02:44] Simon Linden: Let's see ... server news
A[20:03:17] Simon Linden: We updated the main channel servers this morning, so now almost everything is on the same version, aside from the few test EEP regions
A[20:03:57] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what this weeks release notes said, TBH
A[20:04:13] Whirly Fizzle: Without looking, probably "internal fixes" :P
A[20:04:24] Mazidox Linden: There was some internal logging changes too!
A[20:04:33] Whirly Fizzle: Whoohoo
A[20:04:47] animats Resident: Did you put in logging to catch region crossing problems?
A[20:04:50] Tyrehl Byk: The test EEP regions are now inworld?
A[20:05:02] Simon Linden: There are test EEP regions on the main grid, yes
A[20:05:15] Chaser Zaks: internal fixes are actually mirror construction but no one wants to admit it
A[20:05:15] Rex Cronon: hi there. u feeling better mazidox?
A[20:05:24] Simon Linden: I haven't worked on crossings Joe
A[20:05:37] Rider Linden: Yes. Longfellow (on the other side of the river here) as well as Hippotropolis.
A[20:05:41] Mazidox Linden: Great Rex, never better.
A[20:06:11] Rider Linden: (among others)
A[20:06:17] Tyrehl Byk: Approximately how soon will EEP have a full rollout please?
A[20:06:18] Rex Cronon: u need to be in great shape to eat turkey;)
A[20:06:19] Simon Linden: "internal fixes" might also be things that support new shiny features that have to get on the whole grid before we release the viewer
A[20:06:36] animats Resident: Don't look behind you, but the SpatialOS people have 150 developers working on region crossings, US $300 million, and a partnership with Google.
A[20:07:12] Simon Linden: They really goofed up if they designed a virtual world with region crossings, TBH
A[20:07:20] Lucia Nightfire: heh
A[20:07:46] Rex Cronon: with 300 mill they can afford one server per sim:)
A[20:08:21] Lucia Nightfire: maybe they didn't mess up and chance VR
A[20:08:27] Lucia Nightfire: *chase/chance
A[20:08:31] Simon Linden: making a promise that moving from one simulated section to another without any visible glitch is a fool's errand, but then I'm jaded after 11 years of hearing how bad region crossings are and spending months and months making it better
A[20:08:32] Inara Pey: Stepping back a mo...."We updated the main channel servers this morning, so now almost everything is on the same version" - does that mean no planned RC deployments tomorrow? No release thread on the forums...
A[20:08:48] animats Resident: Look into it. They're trying to do it right. Seamless, and the region boundaries move to shrink regions if they get crowded, to provide more resources where needed.
A[20:08:52] Simon Linden: There will be RC releases tomorrow, yes
A[20:08:57] Simon Linden: All 3 are the same version
A[20:09:23] Inara Pey: Ta for clarifying ...
A[20:09:40] Rex Cronon: if all their users have 100mb per sec connection, it might work joe:)
A[20:22:07] Lucia Nightfire: not even opening that link, heh
A[20:22:29] Whirly Fizzle: This is the IM that the fake FS accounts are sending out: https://i.imgur.com/6WhHDeT.png
A[20:22:42] Kallista Destiny: Just seeing that (www required) tells me that they are not pros.
A[20:22:54] Chaser Zaks: Oh, bad DNS settings
A[20:23:07] Rex Cronon: just get low price used computer lucy and u can try any thing on it:)
A[20:24:49] Kallista Destiny: Just have your reinstall disk handy
A[20:25:20] Simon Linden: There is one thing I'd like to mention, and that today is the anniversary of a very special moment in Second Life history. November 13th is V2 Day. Nine years ago we released version 2 of the viewer, which many people mark as the beginning of the end of Second Life.
A[20:25:22] Rex Cronon: reinstall disk not enough. some viruses can mess motherboard bios
A[20:25:38] Lucia Nightfire: I'm surprised at the number of gullible dated accounts that still fall for those full perms sellers on mp...
A[20:29:07] Simon Linden: I know the intentions of V2 were good ... the old SL viewer UI was a crazy mess of things patched on by engineers with no overall design
A[20:29:26] Chaser Zaks: Oh, Mazidox, I'm not sure if I showed you this yet but you inspired me to do it last meeting https://crocuta.softhyena.com/requestforspecialpowersfailed.png
A[20:29:39] Simon Linden: But personally I think they made the mistake of trying to meet a schedule date and not waiting until it was right
A[20:29:46] Kallista Destiny: We all know what good intentions pave
A[20:29:49] Lucia Nightfire: when LL's viewer finally gets multi partial inventory name search like FS, I won't be so hard on it
A[20:30:08] Lucia Nightfire: @Simon, like Sansar going to Steam? heh
A[20:30:10] Mazidox Linden: The way to cookies Kallista?
A[20:30:36] Kallista Destiny: ummmm not quite that nice a place
A[20:30:36] Simon Linden: lol nice Chaser
A[20:30:43] Rex Cronon: if only the sl viewer was modular and u could dynamically load modules...
A[20:30:57] Simon Linden: You're not going to get me to comment on Sansar ... I'm working on SL :)
A[20:31:14] Lucia Nightfire: or load more than one pending name resolution without beign stuck at "Loading..." for the rest
A[20:31:22] animats Resident: Fair enough. They have their own problems to deal with.
A[20:31:37] Chaser Zaks: I'm nto going to talk about it but I just want to say sansar to make the thing go off again.
A[20:31:38] Mazidox Linden: I can confirm that this is actually what happens Chaser.
A[20:31:49] animats Resident: Oh, that's what does it.
A[20:32:07] animats Resident: I was disappointed to find out that EEP does not have rain.
A[20:32:09] Rex Cronon: people "love" to download 15gb or more of data for each sansar region:)
A[20:32:35] Lucia Nightfire: at least they can do it faster not with the texture protocol change....
A[20:32:49] Lucia Nightfire: its still a nightmare env to make changes to
A[20:32:55] Chaser Zaks: I'm going to sacrifice a VM installing that fake viewer.
A[20:32:56] Simon Linden: it would be really cool to have rain, but then we have to have exclusion volumes so it doesn't get inside the house. It would be awesome, but a bunch of work
A[20:33:32] animats Resident: I realize that. There is rain with exclusion barriers on Marketplace, but you have a lot of setup.
A[20:33:37] Lou Netizen: As soon as you make rain, people will want snow that accumulated.
A[20:33:40] Chaser Zaks: Exclusion volumes would be great, they could also be used to cut out water or terrain.
A[20:33:42] Mazidox Linden: Do you not just build with no roof so the rain gets in?
A[20:33:46] Rider Linden: /me has seen invented umbrellas on the marketplace.
A[20:34:16] Chaser Zaks: invisiprims 2.0
A[20:34:18] Simon Linden: yeah I always get frustrated with the water that ends up in boats
A[20:34:19] Lucia Nightfire: ^
A[20:34:35] animats Resident: Ideally, you'd like rain to obey the physics model. But does the viewer even get the physics model?
A[20:34:45] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
A[20:34:46] Rex Cronon: afk
A[20:34:47] Lucia Nightfire: exclusion volume prims are just invisiprims afaik as they occlude alpha textures used in particles
A[20:35:00] Lucia Nightfire: in SL that is
A[20:35:05] Lucia Nightfire: unity its something else, heh
A[20:35:16] Simon Linden: It doesn't Joe, at least not the full thing that models the region
A[20:35:49] Simon Linden: There is some physics code on the viewer and TBH I'm not sure what it does. I know a bunch is for pathfinding settings
A[20:36:13] animats Resident: Haven't looked at that part.
A[20:36:17] Oz Linden: Display of the navmesh, and some parts of the mesh uploader
A[20:36:39] Lucia Nightfire: if particles can be made to bounce off terrain, then it shouldn't be that hard making exclusion volumes
A[20:36:53] Chaser Zaks: Rain can also be done via raycasting, not sure how slow it would be but it could be cached like particles do, so that you can create a rain particle and have it's death point be at a cached raycast point
A[20:36:57] Lucia Nightfire: although bounce ignores particle size iirc
A[20:38:31] Chaser Zaks: Is this the right UG to ask questions about mainland stuff(simulator side)?
A[20:38:33] Oz Linden: Of course, it would be easier to do changes like that if we were close source the viewer, but that ship has sailed
A[20:39:04] Oz Linden: Ask away, Chaser... we aren't shy about telling you we can't answer
A[20:39:08] animats Resident: You'd need to staff up, then.
A[20:39:10] Simon Linden: Sure Chaser, ask anything. I"m not sure you'll get an answer
A[20:39:25] Lucia Nightfire: I think the % of users on tpv have spoken which env they prefer, heh
A[20:39:31] Oz Linden: We always need to staff up, Joe :-)
A[20:40:16] Chaser Zaks: Is there any possible way to acquire the original baked heightmaps(pristine before user modification, but post road design) of mainland? I'd like to acquire them for uses of generating some fancy maps that show height detail.
A[20:41:33] Simon Linden: I think the short answer to that is "no"
A[20:42:49] Beq Janus: hey all, sorry I'm late.
A[20:42:55] Whirly Fizzle: Hey Beq
A[20:42:56] Jenna Felton: hello Beq :)
A[20:42:57] Oz Linden: Do you mean for the whole continent, or for some particular region, Chaser?
A[20:43:41] Chaser Zaks: Whole continent, I'd like to make something similar to Open Street Maps where it has height data in the images.
A[20:44:02] Lou Netizen: Wouldn't you want the current state/user changed for that?
A[20:44:04] Chaser Zaks: It'd also include roads and railways and points of interest.
A[20:44:43] Chaser Zaks: While it would be nice to keep a live updated one, people change terrain a lot so it would quickly become outdated, so I figured the best version would be the original version.
A[20:44:44] Oz Linden: No, I don't think we can do that
A[20:45:49] Qie Niangao: I kinda think the roads and rails aren't baked back into the RAW files, or at least not consistently... so live terrain may be the best available
A[20:46:00] Jenna Felton: I once wanted to get a heightmap of a region and was thinking about to use llGround every 4 meters and create image from the outout
A[20:46:11] Jenna Felton: output
A[20:46:21] animats Resident: Oh, you wanted to have the viewer show that for distant regions?
A[20:46:49] Chaser Zaks: Road data isn't in the heightmaps, I'd have to manually place those. I'll just make a quick map that shows water/terrain type/roads tho, it'll be simple enough but get the info across.
A[20:47:24] Oz Linden: what do want the height data for?
A[20:48:02] animats Resident: Paint the SL map on a huge low-rez mesh of the height data and use that for distant regions.
A[20:48:09] Lou Netizen: That's been done
A[20:48:20] Lucia Nightfire: who's done it?
A[20:48:25] Chaser Zaks: To make a map like this https://snapshots.softhyena.com/25088552331a960d18eda0b51ce3b0af.jpg
A[20:48:45] Lou Netizen: mx.xaris. His focus was on mapping navigable waterways, but height data is height data
A[20:49:11] Lou Netizen: I don't know that he's still doing it, or where the data is
A[20:49:18] animats Resident: You need height data so that it looks right when seen obliquely.
A[20:49:21] Lucia Nightfire: I mean emulate google street view along the roads
A[20:49:47] animats Resident: More like Google Earth.
A[20:50:03] Lucia Nightfire: not talking abotu google earth
A[20:50:07] Lou Netizen: But hey, you could do it with bots and a streaming viewer ;)
A[20:50:11] Lucia Nightfire: but that is another format that can be done
A[20:50:30] Simon Linden: I can't think of a reasonable way to get what you want. Your viewer gets the terrain map, but I don't know how you could detect and determine what is a road since there's no standard for that
A[20:50:35] Lucia Nightfire: I'm sure LL would prefer peopel just make accounts, log in and visit places without need of such things though
A[20:50:45] Lou Netizen: very likely
A[20:51:01] Lou Netizen: Low-priority unrelated question: is there anywhere I could look for up-to-date general info on the "grey goo" fence? I've looked in the wiki but have struck out. I have a new client with some odd rezzing needs. I don't think their project will even get close, but I'd like to check first.
A[20:51:38] Chaser Zaks: Mapping the roads would be done the same way as they are in google maps, painfully slow.
A[20:51:41] Simon Linden: I dont think we've released info on that
A[20:51:56] Jenna Felton: make such a scanning bot and disguist it as a firestorm viewer for windows :)
A[20:51:57] Lou Netizen: OK. I remember some general guidelines from ages ago, but that's all.
A[20:52:04] Simon Linden: but if you're doing something and worried that it's too much, it probably is :)
A[20:52:30] Lou Netizen: I don't *think* it'll be a problem, I just thought I'd try to check before I submit a spec.
A[20:53:08] Nalates Urriah: Run tests
A[20:53:10] Lou Netizen: not a big deal, in any case: I'm sure if we encounter an issue I can explain it
A[20:53:23] Lou Netizen: yep! That's what I'll do. ;)
A[20:54:41] Oz Linden: let us know if your tests turn up anything interesting ...
A[20:55:10] Lou Netizen: will do. My sense is that this will be well below any thresholds. I
A[20:56:51] Lou Netizen: /me wishes she could type anything tonight without an error
A[20:57:29] Lucia Nightfire: well, I got things to do, ttyal
A[20:57:57] animats Resident: Bye.
A[20:58:19] Whirly Fizzle: Governance user group is about to start: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Governance_User_Group
A[20:58:42] Simon Linden: I have another meeting at 1 as well ... thank you everyone for coming this week and the good chat
A[20:58:52] Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens
A[20:58:54] Rider Linden: I should run myself.
A[20:58:56] Simon Linden: See you all next time - TP safely home!