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chatLog: cost/day(4), owner(llsl=Rex-Cronon), create(02/05/2019@21:34:46), expire(03/03/19 @ 21:34:46), public(yes), max(1200), delete(10), send(PRIVATE), data{linesNow(1044), linesTotal(1044)}
Total number of lines: 1044
  1. T[2019-02-12T20:06:13.635081Z] Started: <212.00000, 44.00000, 32.95783>{Denby}
  2. T[20:06:15] Moved: <212.00000, 44.00000, 32.95805>{Denby}
  3. A[20:06:17] Simon Linden: ... and thats pretty much the server news I have
  4. A[20:06:22] Rider Linden: Yes. Bluesteel and LeTigra
  5. A[20:06:49] Simon Linden: So the floor is open for any topics or questions
  6. A[20:08:29] Nalates Urriah: Singularity users and others with older computers seem to be crashing every 15 minutes. Maz and Caleb were talking about it. Any news on whats happen?
  7. A[20:09:18] Rex Cronon: weird i was being logout every 15 minutes on beta grid
  8. A[20:09:43] Nalates Urriah: Others are seeing it on main grid.
  9. A[20:10:07] Rex Cronon: but i logged on beta with an alt and haven
  10. A[20:10:26] Rex Cronon: 'have not been logged out yet
  11. A[20:10:40] Simon Linden: hmm we really need to know times and regions for reports like that ... ideally where the problem occurs, and where it doesn't occur. It might be part of an update
  12. A[20:10:44] Rex Cronon: neither with the alt nor with this
  13. A[20:11:04] Simon Linden: The last time I asked you to test the Rex, you said things were oK so it seems oddly intermittent
  14. A[20:11:29] Nalates Urriah: I'm telling those posting on Sl Forum Answers to file JIRA with precise time and date...
  15. A[20:11:38] Simon Linden: and while I understand it would be frustrating for people in any case, we can't really do much debugging on older viewers
  16. A[20:11:49] Simon Linden: Thanks Nal that does help
  17. A[20:12:24] Simon Linden: From what we can tell it has to do with intermittent networking issues, but we're not sure why it may have become more sensitive
  18. A[20:12:26] Rex Cronon: i tried it on beta on 2/9/19 on ahern and i wasn't logged out after 15 minutes
  19. A[20:12:43] Nalates Urriah: I was answering a Firestorm user that was on 5.1.7 and haveing the problem, They were running a 2nd gen i5.
  20. A[20:13:27] Qie Niangao: so it's older computers, more than older viewers, I guess
  21. A[20:13:37] Nalates Urriah: Seems
  22. A[20:14:00] Simon Linden: any idea what OS it was?
  23. A[20:14:01] Rex Cronon: first i tried with an alt and that with this ave and i wasn't logged out anymore
  24. A[20:14:24] Nalates Urriah: Win 10 I've forgotten if it was 64 bit or not
  25. T[20:14:35] Moved: <212.00000, 44.00000, 32.95979>{Denby}
  26. A[20:14:55] Rex Cronon: and than with this ave*
  27. A[20:14:57] Simon Linden: at least that's reasonably modern :)
  28. T[20:15:32] Moved: <212.00000, 44.00000, 32.95998>{Denby}
  29. A[20:16:11] Nalates Urriah: Their HEKP-ABOUT shows they were 64-bit
  30. A[20:16:24] Nalates Urriah: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/433007-firestorm-crashes-constantly/?do=findComment&comment=1856010
  31. A[20:16:25] Simon Linden: we have dug into logs and a lot of them are showing some network issues and then the connection cut from the viewer side, i.e. no server log messages saying it's kicking them off
  32. T[20:16:47] Moved: <211.78590, 44.27905, 32.96009>{Denby}
  33. A[20:17:47] Nalates Urriah: I suppose without any real info all you can do it thump on the servers with a hammer....
  34. A[20:18:19] Rex Cronon: is the sim version that people have been kicked off:
  35. A[20:18:24] Simon Linden: hmmm it's also tough to get real info if someone is just calling it "crashing" I mean, that post is about FS crashing ... if it really is the FS viewer crashing, that's a FS issue (possibly in our viewer too, but we can't debug FS viewer crashes)
  36. A[20:18:42] Simon Linden: If it's a matter of being disconnected, that's a different technical story all together
  37. A[20:19:46] Nalates Urriah: Yeah, people are imprecise...
  38. A[20:19:55] Rex Cronon: i also tried on sim dore on beta and wasn't logged out from there either
  39. A[20:20:28] Simon Linden: That's good to know, Rex, thanks
  40. A[20:20:44] Rex Cronon: maybe some viewer versions are disconnect while others viewer versions crash
  41. A[20:20:50] Rex Cronon: :)
  42. A[20:22:09] Lou Netizen: I had an utterly minor update to an issue I raised ages ago about particular regions being unable to access things like Amazon AWS, Azure, etc. Frequency of problems dropped off precipitously in December, and in any case we haven't been able to find any we can't attribute to outside-LL issues. Numbers were still vanishingly small: in four months of testing (over 180,000 tests), we saw it happen 15 times, nine times with Amazon, four with Azure, two with Linode. So we've stopped testing for now.
  43. A[20:22:14] Rex Cronon: weird though. when i logged on beta with my alt i was asked to agree to new tos. maybe that had something to do with no more disconnects 4 m3?
  44. A[20:22:32] Simon Linden: /me shrugs ... yes, there could be multiple things going on. THere's not much that can be done with that report other than realizing a FS newbie is having trouble
  45. A[20:23:31] Simon Linden: Lou - that sounds pretty rare. Could you be down to the point where you're just seeing intermittent problems with outages?
  46. A[20:23:39] Rex Cronon: we need to help the newbies:) no matter what viewer they r using:)
  47. A[20:24:30] Simon Linden: I totally agree Rex, I didn't mean to brush it off. I just can't do anything with a report like that, aside from telling them to try the release LL viewer
  48. A[20:25:33] Rex Cronon: i understand simon
  49. A[20:25:53] Lou Netizen: Simon: quite possibly. In AWS cases we were able to identify amazon security appliances being winky. The others…dunno. But they're all IP blocks outside SL.
  50. A[20:26:21] Lou Netizen: So the only way to "fix" communication on an impacted region was a region restart, e.g. moving it to a new IP.
  51. A[20:27:17] Rex Cronon: maybe those places have a new security in place to protect from ddos attacks?
  52. A[20:27:32] Rex Cronon: and its overly protective
  53. A[20:28:05] Lou Netizen: we have no insight into the LL side, but we were able to get AWS to confirm they had put some blocks in place, none were permanent. They wouldn't tell us more though.
  54. A[20:28:27] Lou Netizen: it really just looks like false positives on their end
  55. A[20:28:56] Lou Netizen: With Linode, we think it was a tier 3 issue, but couldn't get enough data
  56. A[20:29:03] Simon Linden: it sounds like something was going on, possibly outside of what you were doing, that got the source IP (our server) blacklisted. There certainly are griefer scripts that might trigger that
  57. A[20:29:37] Lou Netizen: /me nods. My though was something like that, and then the region we test on coming up on one of those IPs days/weeks later or similar
  58. A[20:29:46] Lou Netizen: in any case, it does not appear to be anything systematic
  59. A[20:29:55] Qie Niangao: apropos nothing in particular: A scripting forums thread speculates on prospects, pros & cons of 128K script memory limit, perhaps as a Premium benefit, perhaps somehow piggybacked on Experiences. Any chance such a thing might happen someday, or is it just a pipe dream?
  60. O[20:30:19] Meeter/77e48a07-06f1-4ae4-9d33-6eab4d445e2d: Timecheck : User Group is half over
  61. A[20:31:11] Rex Cronon: if even microsoft decided that an OS needs more than 1mb memory:)
  62. A[20:31:41] Simon Linden: I can give the usual disclaimer about not promising any features and future work Qie, but it's something that is requested and we've discussed it a bunch internally
  63. A[20:32:05] animats Resident: Unless scripts move out of the main thread on servers, more script activity seems undesirable.
  64. A[20:32:19] Simon Linden: being a Premium benefit would be great, but then if you drop back to regular things get complicated and bad
  65. A[20:32:20] Qie Niangao: ... and the discussions haven't yet dismissed it totally out-of-hand?
  66. A[20:32:21] Rex Cronon: u run them locally:)
  67. A[20:32:41] animats Resident: If your script needs to do that much, connect to an external server.
  68. A[20:33:26] Simon Linden: not totally out-of-hand, no .... we realize it's needed. After all, we're coders too so I know it's frustrating trying to make something interesting and hitting that size limit
  69. A[20:33:30] Lou Netizen: depeends on the project. I've worked on things that rely heavily on external servers, but need a dozen or more scripts just to manage inworld components.
  70. A[20:33:31] Qie Niangao: well, in fact it's a size/processing trade-off, often. Lots of scripts out there burning cycles to share memory across scripts.
  71. A[20:34:09] Simon Linden: Right ... some of them, like group subscribos, end up using scripts as a database
  72. A[20:34:14] Qie Niangao: Thanks Simon. I wasn't expecting it was on anybody's plat at this point.
  73. A[20:34:19] Qie Niangao: *plate
  74. A[20:35:15] animats Resident: Maybe divide scripts into two groups - 1) can affect the world, run on main thread, time limited, and 2) can't affect the world, run off main thread, more resources.
  75. A[20:35:21] Simon Linden: script size is a huge factor in region crossings and TP issues, so maybe if we could nail it down to stuff that doesn't move around the grid it would be less scary
  76. A[20:35:34] Simon Linden: (pure speculation and brainstorming)
  77. A[20:36:03] Qie Niangao: ah, unattached only, that would actually be a win... uh, well, except for the heavy-HUD builders, I guess
  78. A[20:36:26] Lou Netizen: yeah, there are people who wouldn't benefit from that, but others who cerrtainly would
  79. A[20:36:28] Simon Linden: right, I'm sure HUDs would want it too
  80. A[20:36:43] Qie Niangao: if only there were an attachment tax
  81. A[20:36:45] Simon Linden: so there may be small steps possible there
  82. T[20:36:47] Moved: <211.78630, 44.27964, 32.96009>{Denby}
  83. A[20:36:59] Simon Linden: oh good idea, I'll pass that along Qie! ;)
  84. A[20:37:04] Qie Niangao: like, if ARCTAN could... like scripts affect LI...
  85. A[20:37:34] Qie Niangao: /me trails off, realizing he has no idea what he's talking about
  86. A[20:37:48] Lou Netizen: :)
  87. A[20:37:50] animats Resident: Depends on the HUD. Helicopter flying hud, group 1. Clothing applier HUD, group 2 if possible.
  88. T[20:38:10] Moved: <211.49180, 43.93499, 32.96009>{Denby}
  89. A[20:38:28] Qie Niangao: oh, if there were a punitive, confiscatory tax on NO-MOD attachments, it would make my day
  90. A[20:38:37] Lucia Nightfire: speaking of appliers, can we unbundle PRIM_TEXTURE and its normal and spec params, heh
  91. A[20:39:08] Simon Linden: I think that's in a feature request, right?
  92. A[20:39:19] animats Resident: Many users would benefit from a clear guide on how to set up an external server to talk to SL. One good wiki article.
  93. A[20:39:25] Lucia Nightfire: its part of SCR-4 iirc
  94. A[20:40:18] Simon Linden: That would be good, Joe. A huge part of that is how/where that external server is hosted (and what tech it runs on). Does anyone have suggestions on what would be a good example?
  95. A[20:40:28] Lucia Nightfire: but PRIM_TEXTURE PRIM_NORMAL and PRIM_SPECULAR have a permissions penalty with texture UUID in limited perms containers, hence the need for higher priority with those params
  96. A[20:40:44] Rex Cronon: in what programming language joe? php? asp?...
  97. A[20:40:50] animats Resident: Me, I have a server on Dreamhost written in Go.
  98. T[20:41:17] Moved: <211.50840, 43.93258, 32.96009>{Denby}
  99. A[20:41:32] Simon Linden: Oh just to torment you, I want to say I went through all the feature requests and llGetEnv() and llGetObjectDetails() and gathered them together to review and rank. That's as far as I got, however
  100. A[20:41:33] Rex Cronon: i am using php for my chatlog
  101. A[20:41:38] Lou Netizen: I've used several different setups; I think it's pretty common for people to use "standard" hosting setups with a small selection of scripting languages available, typically php, perl, python, maybe golang
  102. A[20:42:30] animats Resident: It's not that hard for anyone who's set up a web server. But the documentation needs work. I had to discover what all those X-headers did, for example.
  103. A[20:42:35] Lou Netizen: but I know people using Raspberry Pi's on their home networks to power simple things ;)
  104. A[20:42:50] Simon Linden: yeah we don't want to send time describing how to set up the servers themselves really but showing a basic "hello" php or python server and how LSL hits it might be helpful
  105. A[20:43:14] Lou Netizen: out of curiosity, what was the X-Header issue?
  106. A[20:43:24] Simon Linden: lol Lou - I have a raspberry pi with a SSD in my house as an extra spare server
  107. A[20:43:28] Lou Netizen: heh
  108. A[20:43:39] Simon Linden: did that fix itself?
  109. A[20:43:55] animats Resident: When SL makes an HTTP request ot the outside world, it adds some HTTP headers which begin "X-". They have useful stuff like the UUID of the requesting object.
  110. A[20:44:01] Lou Netizen: /me nods
  111. A[20:44:05] Rex Cronon: u have a pie server:) does it serve hot pie:)
  112. A[20:44:28] Simon Linden: Right, that one was sending the older version of an account name after they had changed it
  113. A[20:44:38] Simon Linden: or Linden changed it for them, I mean
  114. A[20:44:56] Lou Netizen: oh, right
  115. A[20:45:12] Lou Netizen: /me must be getting old, I was here for that
  116. A[20:45:16] Simon Linden: I looked at the code and it was pretty simple, the script was just fetching a name and using it.
  117. A[20:45:39] Rex Cronon: i had to print out all the headers sent and received to make sense of things
  118. A[20:45:45] Simon Linden: So we were guessing it was a stale cache or something ... if it went away, that was probably it. Maybe a restart took care of it
  119. A[20:46:21] Simon Linden: I don't think we actually changed anything with that case
  120. A[20:47:38] Rex Cronon: there is also at least on json lsl function that can be used 4 communication with outside server
  121. A[20:47:45] Rex Cronon: at least one*
  122. A[20:48:08] Lou Netizen: LSL has several JSON support functions
  123. A[20:48:25] Lou Netizen: some people even use them for non-external stuff
  124. A[20:48:26] Simon Linden: right, that was the whole reason for JSON support - getting data in and out of SL
  125. A[20:48:43] animats Resident: Yes, I've used JSON for inter-script communication.
  126. A[20:48:50] Lou Netizen: same, Joe
  127. A[20:48:50] Rider Linden: Is there a JIRA that describes the issue?
  128. A[20:51:46] Lou Netizen: I can't find one but my JIRA fu is weak
  129. A[20:52:09] Rex Cronon: lsl could be really useful if it became an oop language...
  130. A[20:52:12] animats Resident: Whirly isn't here this week.
  131. A[20:52:25] Rex Cronon: or use mono...
  132. A[20:52:32] Simon Linden: we're more likely to switch to a new language than try to extend LSL
  133. A[20:52:43] animats Resident: It does use mono.
  134. A[20:53:09] Rex Cronon: i mean instead of lsl we use mono for scripting
  135. T[2019-02-12T21:02:32.008376Z] Started: <211.50800, 43.93260, 32.96011>{Denby}
  136. A[21:03:21] Rex Cronon: my connection crashed and i lost the last 7 minutes of the meeting:(
  137. A[21:03:49] Rex Cronon: if somebody reads this could please share those last 7 minutes with me?
  138. A[21:04:17] Rex Cronon: could u*
  139. A[21:06:41] Jenna Felton: I was afk
  140. A[21:07:05] Jenna Felton: have a good week Rex and nice time :)
  141. A[21:07:30] Jenna Felton: a moment Rex
  142. T[21:09:12] Moved: <211.52740, 43.96353, 32.96009>{Denby}
  143. T[21:09:14] Moved: <211.50170, 44.04127, 32.96009>{Denby}
  144. A[21:09:20] Rex Cronon: u still here?
  145. A[21:09:29] Rex Cronon: u don't go to that meeting?
  146. A[21:11:03] Rex Cronon: thank u:)
  147. A[21:11:23] Jenna Felton: you are welcome Rex :) and no, i go offline
  148. A[21:11:33] Jenna Felton: i visit only the SSUG and SBUG
  149. A[21:11:41] Rex Cronon: ok
  150. A[21:11:43] Jenna Felton: have fun and good time :)
  151. A[21:11:48] Rex Cronon: u 2
  152. A[21:11:50] Rex Cronon: thank u:)
  153. A[21:11:55] Jenna Felton: thanks :)
  154. A[22:54:08] Minuet Voir: Hello Nal and Yuzuru
  155. A[23:00:03] Nalates Urriah: Hi Minuet & Yuzuru. Had to relog. Things were not working.
  156. A[23:01:04] Minuet Voir: better now?
  157. A[23:01:16] Nalates Urriah: Yes, thank you
  158. A[23:02:57] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
  159. A[23:03:18] Nalates Urriah: Hi Rex
  160. A[23:03:32] Jenna Felton: hello All :)
  161. A[23:03:57] arton Rotaru: Gunaaaabend
  162. A[23:04:06] Nalates Urriah: Hi Arton
  163. A[23:04:12] Minuet Voir: Hello Jenna and Bunneh
  164. A[23:04:20] Rex Cronon: hi nal
  165. A[23:04:25] Minuet Voir: Hi Rex
  166. A[23:04:36] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
  167. A[23:04:41] Rex Cronon: hi arton
  168. A[23:04:44] Rex Cronon: hi minuet
  169. A[23:05:07] arton Rotaru: Lindens seem to be busy
  170. A[23:05:11] Rex Cronon: we r missing somethingvery important
  171. A[23:05:46] Rex Cronon: something called a linden. itsa a mythical creature:) very hard to find:)
  172. A[23:06:29] Jenna Felton: Rex, could you extend your chat loger a way that it can remove log lines older than a week or so? This way we could always see the log of the last week and the used memory would be not too big so you must not clean it completelly?
  173. A[23:06:41] Jenna Felton: hello Whirly :)
  174. A[23:07:11] Whirly Fizzle: Hiya :)
  175. A[23:07:17] Jenna Felton: (just relized you'll have to clean the log soon, Rex :))
  176. A[23:07:46] Rex Cronon: u want me to keep the last week log too?
  177. A[23:07:57] Rex Cronon: hi whirly
  178. A[23:08:21] Jenna Felton: sometimes the internet is gone for a few days and when meanwhile you cleaned the log, its gone
  179. A[23:08:35] Jenna Felton: but more than a week makes probably not much sence
  180. A[23:08:42] arton Rotaru: where does the internet go
  181. A[23:09:01] Jenna Felton: it decides to go for holidays, arton :)
  182. A[23:09:03] Nalates Urriah: Have you thought of posting the log in the SL Forum?
  183. A[23:09:25] Rex Cronon: what do u mean nal?
  184. A[23:09:39] arton Rotaru: isn't that aginst the guidelines?
  185. A[23:10:01] Rex Cronon: what guidelines?
  186. A[23:10:05] Nalates Urriah: ?... Post a copy in the forum?
  187. A[23:10:08] Jenna Felton: hmm, when maybe always the last 1200 lines remain, there are 3 meeting logs available
  188. A[23:10:16] arton Rotaru: community Second Life blah blub
  189. A[23:10:26] Nalates Urriah: Not for public UG meetings
  190. A[23:10:33] arton Rotaru: okay
  191. A[23:11:08] Rex Cronon: anybody can copy it to the forum...
  192. A[23:11:16] arton Rotaru: any of you guys watched the twitch vid of the sansar meeting with Ebbe?
  193. A[23:11:17] Jenna Felton: i think public chat is allowed to be posted. and the UG are public meetings
  194. A[23:11:25] Minuet Voir: Occasionally I post bits and pieces
  195. A[23:11:40] Nalates Urriah: THe Lindens used to post chat logs.
  196. A[23:11:50] Rex Cronon: used to. right
  197. A[23:11:57] Jenna Felton: yes, used to :)
  198. A[23:12:03] Minuet Voir: Yes, I was going to do that, even got permission. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but meh
  199. A[23:12:21] Nalates Urriah: It becomes work
  200. A[23:12:23] Rex Cronon: actually it becomes work. lol
  201. A[23:12:34] Minuet Voir: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
  202. A[23:12:47] Minuet Voir: That's better spot than the forums
  203. A[23:13:02] Minuet Voir: Pelican agrees
  204. A[23:13:13] arton Rotaru: when does the US change to DST?
  205. A[23:13:26] Minuet Voir: ummm
  206. A[23:13:31] Nalates Urriah: No... can't read minds. The print is usually too small... :P
  207. A[23:13:39] Rex Cronon: lol
  208. A[23:13:48] Minuet Voir: soon? (tm)
  209. A[23:14:15] Minuet Voir: March 10th
  210. A[23:14:24] Minuet Voir: 2 a.m.
  211. A[23:14:26] Jenna Felton: I know when i am here or at Denby and no one is there :)
  212. A[23:14:27] arton Rotaru: thank you
  213. A[23:14:31] Nalates Urriah: Oh... I can edit that wiki page. Those used to be off limits.
  214. A[23:14:39] Rex Cronon: btw. on 020919 i logged on aherm with my alt and wasn't loged out
  215. A[23:15:11] Rex Cronon: and i tried with this ave and wasn't logged out after 15 minutes anymore
  216. A[23:15:14] Jenna Felton: is you able to log in with two viewers at same time Rex?
  217. A[23:15:14] Rex Cronon: weird
  218. A[23:15:18] arton Rotaru: what happens on the main grids RC regions with you Rex?
  219. A[23:15:37] Jenna Felton: *are you able*
  220. A[23:15:49] arton Rotaru: 2 viewers on a toaster
  221. A[23:15:55] Jenna Felton: ok
  222. A[23:16:00] arton Rotaru: burn baby burn,
  223. A[23:16:07] arton Rotaru: disco inferno
  224. A[23:16:10] Jenna Felton: in winther maybe possible
  225. A[23:16:22] Jenna Felton: open the windows and put the PC on the window bench :)
  226. A[23:17:02] Minuet Voir: There's a bug report
  227. A[23:17:06] Minuet Voir: on a Cake region
  228. A[23:17:20] Minuet Voir: uhhhh
  229. A[23:17:29] Minuet Voir: I was talking!
  230. A[23:17:29] Jenna Felton: 15 min was over...
  231. A[23:17:57] arton Rotaru: so whats going on with the L guys?
  232. A[23:18:15] arton Rotaru: what bug report is that on cake?
  233. A[23:18:30] Minuet Voir: one sec, hold your ears...
  234. A[23:18:33] Jenna Felton: wb Rex
  235. A[23:18:40] Minuet Voir: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-226325
  236. A[23:19:07] arton Rotaru: loggin in ....
  237. A[23:19:12] Minuet Voir: There's another region on Cake called Monument
  238. A[23:19:26] Rex Cronon: lol. i spoke too soon
  239. A[23:19:30] Rex Cronon: thank u
  240. A[23:19:31] Minuet Voir: You can't go to that parcel cause of security, but there's a wall divider
  241. A[23:19:33] arton Rotaru: aha, that's Rex Alt perhaps ^^
  242. A[23:19:48] Minuet Voir: you can hang on the wall
  243. A[23:19:49] arton Rotaru: the bug reporter I mean
  244. A[23:20:00] Minuet Voir: bug reporter is a biker dude
  245. A[23:20:17] Minuet Voir: didn't sound like Rex
  246. A[23:20:20] Rex Cronon: i wonder i ahern has different version
  247. A[23:20:46] Rex Cronon: i don't have that many alts lol
  248. A[23:21:06] Rex Cronon: my typing sound are very unique;)
  249. A[23:21:44] Jenna Felton: I think LL must use a special Priority setting for bug reports like that one, an "Upset" instead of "Unset"
  250. A[23:22:01] Nalates Urriah: Le Tigre & Blue Steel had different version late Monday morning. I couldn't edit EEP settings on LeTigre only BlueSteel

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Copyright © 2013 llsl:Rex Cronon. All rights reserved.
edited: 12/31/2013 @ 11:03:09
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